Il2 Cliffs of Dover Blitz and Tobruk - News and updates

[Feathered_IV]

Sounds good. But in all honestly; unless Fulcrum has gathered a dedicated Dev team in China, I do not expect to see it before early 2027.

[Enceladus]

If anyone missed it we're for sure getting 18 flyable planes in Fortresses and Focke-Wulfs - Dieppe and some AI planes, though they may be flyable assuming they are completed by the end of next year.

TF 6.0 Possible Additional Aircraft: Morane MS.406C-1 - Team Fusion Notes - IL-2 Sturmovik Forum (il2sturmovik.com)

[kestrel79]

I'm excited for this stuff too, but agree I can't see this coming any time soon, let alone next year. But I wish them the best of luck!

[Feldgrün]

1 hour ago, kestrel79 said:

I'm excited for this stuff too, but agree I can't see this coming any time soon, let alone next year. But I wish them the best of luck!

The more planes that keep getting added to 6.0, and the more promises of changes to AI, maps, interfaces, etc., the more I think it'll take far longer than anyone reasonably expects.

[Feathered_IV]

Like I said, not before early 2027. Save the date. 

[MustangMike]

2 minutes ago, Feldgrün said:

The more planes that keep getting added to 6.0, and the more promises of changes to AI, maps, interfaces, etc., the more I think it'll take far longer than anyone reasonably expects.

And the longer we go without VR, the less and less interest I have in waiting for it.

Lets be real, the game is already pretty damn dated in a lot of ways. Its not gonna get better as it gets older and more and more sims enter the market. Combat Pilot, whatever IL-2's New project is, msfs24, DCS are all gonna be raising the bar higher as CLOD Stagnates. Dieppe is gonna have some tough competition in the next few years.

[Skelthos]

56 minutes ago, MustangMike said:

And the longer we go without VR, the less and less interest I have in waiting for it.

This is the only thing keeping me from playing it.  At this point, no VR support in any sim is a complete deal breaker for me. 

[Enceladus]

20 hours ago, MustangMike said:

Dieppe is gonna have some tough competition in the next few years.

Well we’re getting a flyable B-17 along with a host of other aircraft, something that hasn’t happened in a combat sim (save for WT and IL-2 1946) since when… the Firepower expansion for CFS3?

That to me would make people want to get Dieppe.

Edited October 3, 2023 by Enceladus
Mainly a typo

[Mysticpuma]

Always nice to see Oleg Maddox acknowledge an update, especially the new B17/FW update from TFS on the CloD FB page 🙂

[Trooper117]

Oleg will always be one of my flight sim heroes... along with Jason of course.   (creep, creep)...

[wheelsup_cavu]

On 10/7/2023 at 1:44 AM, Mysticpuma said:

Oleg Maddox

 

His flight sims and the content generated by them have monopolized most of my leisure time for the better part of the last twenty plus years of my life.

 

Wheels

[Boom]

Latest update. Looking very exciting. And great choice of aircraft.

 

[Mysticpuma]

Some texture updates from Tobruk and Dieppe. Reworked textures. Lighter less Orange are the updated textures. 

Before:

After

And a few extra pics. 

Norden Bombsight 

B17 front perspex

Clemson Class Destroyer

[Mysticpuma]

From Buzzsaw:

Hello All

We will have more information on an additional aircraft currently in development in a later post. We have a very significant aircraft type in quite advanced development. It will not be a part of DIEPPE, instead will be the centerpiece of another module.

----


This post is intended to provide the community with an understanding of the rationale behind Team Fusion’s map creation decisions.

First of all: The maximum map size in the original and current game engine is approximately 400 km X 400 km.

TOBRUK:

- At the moment of the agreement with 1C Online Games, Team Fusion was presented with a copy of the Source Code. This was not the latest version, as that had been lost, we were fortunate the version we were given had been saved on a computer which was overlooked during the renovations etc. which occurred after the departure of Ilya Shevchenko and his team.

- We were not given any tools which might allow us to work with the game engine and Source Code. So there was no map creation tool, there was no tool to allow Imports of 3D aircraft and objects into the game and there were no instructions on how to program aircraft flight, damage, or other modeling.

- We were able to adapt the IL-2 1946 Aircraft/object Import tool to work in CLIFFS and through much trial and error, we were able to understand the methods used to program the various modeling systems.

- However, although we searched, nothing was found and we were required to build our own map tool. Anyone can created a contour mapped 3d representation of a section of historical terrain, but to import that large 3D object into a game such that the game’s physics engine recognizes the surfaces and substances which comprise the map, the objects you want to place, as well as temperatures, weather integration, etc. requires a tool which can translate all these elements through the physics engine into a simulation of a real environment.

- After 3 failed attempts, (3 bugfests) we were finally able to build a first generation map tool, but the clock was ticking on TF 5.0, and this initial generation Tool had no means to create water environments other than the sea… so no rivers, no lakes, etc. In addition, the problems with bridges etc. which existed on the Channel map remained… best to avoid a lot of river crossings.

- Initially we thought about a Malta map, but that required at least a section of Sicily, which has numerous rivers and streams. A NW European map was out of the question. The obvious choice was a North African map of Libya/Egypt… there are only dry Wadis in the desert environment. The area which saw combat would fit the 400 X 400 km format.

- In addition, we already had a number of aircraft which were AI, i.e. not flyable by the players, due to their lack of cockpits… which could be made flyable relatively easily. Existing aircraft could also have new variants created. All of these would be compatible with a desert campaign.

- Finally a Desert map is relatively unpopulated, it can be completed without a lot of effort, and for a team which was learning on the job, the choice was obvious.

- So we made the decision for TOBRUK.



DIEPPE:

- By the launch of TOBRUK, we had a map tool which could do rivers. After TOBRUK we had a choice… go to another Mediterranean scenario, North Africa or Malta, or go back to NW Europe. We didn’t believe the community wanted another North Africa map immediately. (we think the new version of TOBRUK with 4k terrain, Speedtree 8.42 and trueSKY will be more popular) We now had a map tool which could do a Malta scenario… but the time frame to create the map would be lengthy… the area including Malta and Sicily that is required is quite large, there are a lot of towns and villages, these have a lot of unique building types. And the terrain is incredibly complex.

- The existing Channel map was popular, but bug ridden. If we spent a lot of time fixing all these bugs, we wouldn’t have time to build a whole new NW Europe map. In any case, a new map covering an area of NW Europe would be incredibly dense, huge numbers of roads, huge numbers of towns and villages, huge numbers of unique buildings. It would take years.

- We knew the community was enthusiastic about aerial combat which included B-17’s… and there was a core of bomber jockeys who would be delighted to have this aircraft as a ride.

- The Dieppe Raid was an obvious choice. We could fix the existing Battle of Britain map, plus create a new version Channel map for 1941-42. We could add the B-17, plus a number of new types, including the FW-190, Typhoon, P-51A, later models of the Spitfire, Bf-109, etc. The Channel map is a large map… the area of Dieppe is not one which saw a lot of use in BLITZ… so in effect it would be new terrain for the players to fly over.

----

TF 7.0 Central-Western Egypt:

- Again, a Malta map is some time away. Several years. Creating a new Desert map would be much simpler, it could use a lot of the same textures and features as the 2nd generation TOBRUK… and we could work on the Malta map in parallel. The new Central-Western Egypt map would allow us to introduce a number of new aircraft types which should be popular… and which could be used on the Channel map and the TOBRUK map. (see the detailed post on this map and scenario in this forum section)

TF 8.0 Mediterranean Sea… including Malta and Sicily: (detailed post upcoming later)

TF 9.0 Expanded size NW Europe Map… at least 600 km X 600 km… Eastern Britain, Northern France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Holland and Western Germany: (detailed post upcoming later)



There is certainly the potential for adding additional maps besides those discussed in these posts, but at the moment these maps are the focus of our efforts.

Note: All maps are subject to change, dependent on planning, discussions with Fulqrum, the success of the TF 6.0 DIEPPE module, as well as the willingness of our team members to continue their work with the CLIFFS engine.

I would recommend reading the other recent post: "How Map creation decisions were taken" prior to reading this.

Central-Western Egypt (TF-7.0)

This map is designed to complement the existing TOBRUK map… it will be a part of the intended TF 7.0 module which will cover the aerial campaign in the Western Desert from July of 1942 to November of 1942 and allow us to complete the Desert Campaign.

This map is ingame in Beta form and is being developed in parallel with the work ongoing on the DIEPPE Channel map and the upgraded TOBRUK map. At the moment we only have simplified textures to show you. There is no vegetation currently on the map… it will use Speedtree 8.42 vegetation once that program is integrated into the CLIFFS game engine. The new map and module will of course, include the Visual Updates, as well as VR.

The map will share many of its final textures and vegetation with the yet to be released upgraded TOBRUK map… although it will have unique textures of its own… to illustrate for example, the Quattara Depression and areas of the Nile Delta.

Some of the buildings from TOBRUK will be used in this map, but it will add quite a few new types… to allow us to build the city of Alexandria and the naval base there. The city of Cairo will not be included on the map.

As mentioned, this map will be a part of the TF 7.0 module. As part of that module we will introduce a number of new aircraft types, including as one of the centerpieces, the American B-24D. This heavy bomber was first used during WWII in the Western hemisphere by USAAF as part of the Halverson Project based out of Egypt in 1942. (HALPRO) During this time the B-24 was used as a heavy bomber to support the British 8th Army during the El Alamein campaign. A small number, (13 B-24) from HALPRO also attacked the Ploesti Oil Fields in June of 1942 but we will not be replicating this event or creating a map for it. The B-24D modeling has not yet started although we have a modeler designated who is eager to begin once the 3d work for DIEPPE is complete. We will also include a tropical version of the B-17E in TF 7.0… these aircraft were also part of HALPRO, together with the B-24’s later forming the 376th and 98th Bomb Groups of the USAAF. The B-24 will be usable on the DIEPPE Channel map. For TF 7.0 we also plan to introduce at least one new fighter type, as well as new variants of existing fighter types and hopefully new Italian and American twin engined bombers. There will also be new vehicles and ships.

We also expect to develop the land and naval aspects of the core CLIFFS game engine for TF 7.0 to allow players to experience and control in first person a fully integrated Air/Land/Sea environment… a fully integrated battlefield on a scale not seen before. Aircraft will still be the focus of the Simulation, but the player will be able to control ships/vehicles and/or formations of ships/vehicles, either in first person as a vehicle/ship commander, or via pull up map interactions as a strategic battlefield commander. These new TF 6.0 game engine features will be retroactively patched into BLITZ/TOBRUK/DIEPPE after the release of TF 7.0.

More details on the exact content of TF 7.0 after the DIEPPE release.

Images show:

Overview contour map of area (click on map to enlarge, then 'open image in new tab' for full size view.

Alexandria area (low resolution placeholder textures... no buildings, or dock facilities, no escarpment, no rock formation, etc.)

Quattara Depression (low resolution placeholder textures... no escarpment, no rock formation, etc.)

The images are large and can't be attached here but here is the original thread with images:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/86116-tf-70-central-and-western-egypt-map/

Cheers, Mysticpuma

[wheelsup_cavu]

That is looking really good. 😎

 

Wheels

[Mysticpuma]

Intriguing comment from Buzzsaw:

"At the moment the only planned element in the next graphics package is PBR... (we have built our aircraft cockpits with a graphics program which would allow quick implementation of PBR) what else might be included will be determined when the programmers/3d artists start work and we look at our resources.

In the meantime, we are working hard to finish the Visual Update and TF 6.0 and have other plans in process, ...see my additional aircraft posts and map posts in forum section "Team Fusion Notes"... not to mention we will have a big announcement regarding another important aircraft whose 3D modeling is already well underway... and which will be the centerpiece of a 4th new module to closely follow the TF 6.0 release... ahead of TF 7.0."

So a 4th module between v6 and v7? 🤔

[MustangMike]

All well and good, I welcome the transparency with their plans but considering how long we've been waiting for the visual update/VR update, I find it all a bit.. ambitious to say the least. I'd be surprised if most of this is complete by the end of the decade, and by then I strongly suspect flight simmers will have new better games to play.

The TF team would honestly be better off looking for work with Jason or Microprose at this point I think.

[Mysticpuma]

Just now, MustangMike said:

All well and good, I welcome the transparency with their plans but considering how long we've been waiting for the visual update/VR update, I find it all a bit.. ambitious to say the least. I'd be surprised if most of this is complete by the end of the decade, and by then I strongly suspect flight simmers will have new better games to play.

The TF team would honestly be better off looking for work with Jason or Microprose at this point I think.

As I understand it some of the modellers of TFS  are helping create assets for Combat Pilot, who knows, maybe they will become full time depending on the delays with CLoD? 

[Enceladus]

18 minutes ago, MustangMike said:

I'd be surprised if most of this is complete by the end of the decade, and by then I strongly suspect flight simmers will have new better games to play.

Nope, it will be released by late 2024. Given how much flak they get when they miss a deadline… even by a day… they wouldn’t say it will be released by late 2024 unless it actually will.

18 minutes ago, MustangMike said:

The TF team would honestly be better off looking for work with Jason or Microprose at this point I think.

It’s nice that TF modellers are assisting in creating assets for Combat Pilot — there’s no rush for Combat Pilot and the first things released in a public Beta will be the Wildcat, Zero, USS Enterprise and IJN Akagi. But, having all of TF migrate to another game because some guy thinks so is ridiculous. The CP and Micropose game engines are completely different from the CloD engine, so a lot of time would have to be spent to get 30 people up to date with making content and also acquainting them to many others things in this game. While yes, CP is in the embryo phase, I don’t think Jason’s team has the time to train 30 people for things beyond making some assets.

So no, the only game TF will be working on is CloD/IL-2 Dover series.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Enceladus

[JFM]

On 11/1/2023 at 10:42 PM, Mysticpuma said:

“In the meantime, we are working hard to finish the Visual Update and TF 6.0 and have other plans in process, ...see my additional aircraft posts and map posts in forum section "Team Fusion Notes"... not to mention we will have a big announcement regarding another important aircraft whose 3D modeling is already well underway... and which will be the centerpiece of a 4th new module to closely follow the TF 6.0 release... ahead of TF 7.0."

And now comes another 50-page post about what we see in our tea leaves! 😀

[Feathered_IV]

Announcing new projects is super fun

[Enceladus]

Malta and Sicily map announcement

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/86539-tf-80-map-central-mediterranean-malta-and-sicily/

[Feldgrün]

Map for 8.0 looks great, but I'm still hoping for 6.0.

[Feathered_IV]

7 hours ago, Feldgrün said:

Map for 8.0 looks great, but I'm still hoping for 6.0.

[kestrel79]

Wow they are really getting ahead of themselves here. Announcing the next 2 projects. I like where they are going with both updates but hope they can deliver. See you guys in 2028 🙂