Put a end to the Owl head view?

[ACG_Ginger]

Great news that at last we are to get the Pacific theater , the one thing I would ask for is to stop the ability for pilots to look backwards 180 deg? It's the one thing all sims let you do by either using snap view / neck savers / head tracking etc  and the one thing pilots couldn't do , for those who say you can try it in your car next time your out. History tells us that the top aces would sneak up on an opponent before opening up , just look at the video's our top sim aces love to put out and you see what i mean , they seem to have a head like a Owl.

So for the greater good of piloting kind , put some sort of limit on the ability to rotate the head view and add another thing to make the project awesome.

[Ribbon]

+1 

[rollnloop]

18 minutes ago, ACG_Ginger said:

for those who say you can try it in your car next time your out.

Please do it while stationnary 😅 .

 

I do it in my car everytime I need to park in reverse gear. It works perfectly well.

 

I'm pretty confident I wouldn't be able to do so while pulling more than 2Gs, though. Maybe 3Gs, with training ?

[ACG_Ginger]

3 minutes ago, rollnloop said:

Please do it while stationnary 😅 .

 

I do it in my car everytime I need to park in reverse gear. It works perfectly well.

 

I'm pretty confident I wouldn't be able to do so while pulling more than 2Gs, though. Maybe 3Gs, with training ?

180, deg's? and you dont see your head rests , i need a car like that lol

 

[rollnloop]

You need a to loosen your shoulder and neck stiffness 😉

[Hook Echo]

Your eyes have a fantastic ability to look in a direction your head is not pointing. I can see more than 180° behind me. I'd say about 200°-210° in my case. I agree with rollnloop, the G forces would add another variable. Maybe this would get too gamey but I could see a system where if your harness is in the tight position it would limit your head movement and you'd be able to handle more Gs. If it was loosened, better movement less Gs.

If pilots couldn't see behind them what would be the point of a bubble canopy?

[Denum]

Just messing around in my truck. 

 

If my shoulder straps weren't tight could definitely get close to it. Not a perfect 180 mind you but between head rotation and eyes I can see the center of my rear seat. 

For reference, 17 inch neck and a pretty sizeable set of shoulders. 

Pulling hard turns it would be pretty hard though.

[ACG_Ginger]

45 minutes ago, Hook Echo said:

Your eyes have a fantastic ability to look in a direction your head is not pointing. I can see more than 180° behind me. I'd say about 200°-210° in my case. I agree with rollnloop, the G forces would add another variable. Maybe this would get too gamey but I could see a system where if your harness is in the tight position it would limit your head movement and you'd be able to handle more Gs. If it was loosened, better movement less Gs.

If pilots couldn't see behind them what would be the point of a bubble canopy?

Yes your eyes can see where your head isn't pointing , but your vision is not the as clear as in game makes it , So you have shoulder harnesses on and you can turn you head 180 deg's  and pick a object out another 30 deg's to the side. I must be doing some thing wrong lol

[ACG_Ginger]

45 minutes ago, Denum said:

Just messing around in my truck. 

 

If my shoulder straps weren't tight could definitely get close to it. Not a perfect 180 mind you but between head rotation and eyes I can see the center of my rear seat. 

For reference, 17 inch neck and a pretty sizeable set of shoulders. 

Pulling hard turns it would be pretty hard though.

Yes and that's the same for most of us , but in game you get 180 perfect vision , that's the killer.

 

[Trooper117]

29 minutes ago, ACG_Ginger said:

but in game you get 180 perfect vision , that's the killer.

No mate... that stops you getting killed!  😁

[dburne]

Well this should certainly be an interesting thread lol.

As for me I fly in VR and have always flown with 1:1 head tracking. No owl head on a swivel for me. I do not however, do MP only SP.

[CPT Crunch]

I've got one to one VR ratio, if it's going to be artificially stopped at some bogus point that I can actually move too I'm going to get pissed.  If you want an option in settings that's a OK, but if it's going to be jammed universally down everyone's necks, no thanks.

[Hook Echo]

[Toxin]

I have a motion rig and am belted into my seat. Over the last 3 yrs, I have slowly developed some neck pains from doing exactly what this Viper-Driver is illustrating.  I am starting to feel the need to use VR neck saver so I am not in pain the next day.  Fighter pilot is a young mans game so to speak and now as an old man I must agree that it should be an option and not viewed or locked out as an exploit. 

[Sharpie]

Why not just leave both as is? Not everyone has perfect flexibility (and I'm sure some ADA folks would love to have this feature anyway). Sure, it's "gamey", but it's a game.

 

In a perfect world, VR-only servers exist that remove any camera functionality aside from helmets tracked eyes.

Edited May 20, 2023 by Sharpie

[Baldrick]

6 hours ago, Sharpie said:

Why not just leave both as is? Not everyone has perfect flexibility (and I'm sure some ADA folks would love to have this feature anyway). Sure, it's "gamey", but it's a game.

Flying WW2 aircraft in combat is obviously a fantasy. Many of us want to feel like we were there, so it needs to be a realistic fantasy. I have no issue with that fantasy including a younger, fitter and more agile version of me!

[Jaydog]

I refuse to fly 2D anymore in combat sims. I prefer the immersion and actually turning my head as much as possible to check my six. Neck saver apps are for the lazy and gamers more concerned about their stats and KD ratios  lol 

[javelina]

On 5/19/2023 at 5:37 PM, Toxin said:

I have a motion rig and am belted into my seat. Over the last 3 yrs, I have slowly developed some neck pains from doing exactly what this Viper-Driver is illustrating.  I am starting to feel the need to use VR neck saver so I am not in pain the next day.  Fighter pilot is a young mans game so to speak and now as an old man I must agree that it should be an option and not viewed or locked out as an exploit. 

give it time, and I'm sure Norbert will have the VR neck saver ported over (if this capability isn't native).  time will tell, but I definitely use neck saver in the other flight sims (including the civ one).  Getting too old...  🙂

[Trooper117]

I don't do VR... Trackir is absolutely fine for me.

[Skelthos]

18 hours ago, Jaydog said:

Neck saver apps are for the lazy and gamers more concerned about their stats and KD ratios  lol 

I do not think this is entirely fair, I do not use it myself, but I do know some people with physical limitations that use it because they physically cannot turn their head even as far most people can.     I do support some version of it for those people, but think it should be limited to what a real pilot could have reasonably been able to see turning in their seats.  

[javelina]

2 minutes ago, Skelthos said:

I do not think this is entirely fair, I do not use it myself, but I do know some people with physical limitations that use it because they physically cannot turn their head even as far most people can.     I do support some version of it for those people, but think it should be limited to what a real pilot could have reasonably been able to see turning in their seats.  

I would concur.  It works great for my limited ability to move around. 

(I don't fly MP, so don't see the whole stats and KD ratio angle thingy....)

[Baldrick]

1 hour ago, Skelthos said:

I do not think this is entirely fair, I do not use it myself, but I do know some people with physical limitations that use it because they physically cannot turn their head even as far most people can.     I do support some version of it for those people, but think it should be limited to what a real pilot could have reasonably been able to see turning in their seats.  

I can see behind me in the real world in my seat easier than in VR. The limited horizontal FOV of my Reverb robs me of my peripheral vision. My preference is a tuneable rotation increase, in my case I only want a small increase to recover the lost vision in VR. 

[SharpeXB]

It’s a myth started by stiff necked VR players wearing scuba masks that fighter pilots couldn’t see their 6:00. Why do you think some of these aircraft had blister canopies? And in some cases even changed their bulkhead fuselage designs to incorporate these at the expense of stability and performance?

Also this

And this

Now what the game should do is a correct neck and shoulder turn animation like DCS where you look around the headrest instead of directly into it. The 180d owl neck is both inaccurate and actually makes looking behind you more difficult. 

Edited June 9, 2023 by SharpeXB

[dburne]

On 6/9/2023 at 5:03 PM, SharpeXB said:

It’s a myth started by stiff necked VR players wearing scuba masks that fighter pilots couldn’t see their 6:00. Why do you think some of these aircraft had blister canopies? And in some cases even changed their bulkhead fuselage designs to incorporate these at the expense of stability and performance?

Also this

And this

Now what the game should do is a correct neck and shoulder turn animation like DCS where you look around the headrest instead of directly into it. The 180d owl neck is both inaccurate and actually makes looking behind you more difficult. 

 

Actually it was started by some VR players to try and get equal footing as the accelerated view Track IR players do. Surely you are familiar with how Track IR works? Me I do  not use it in VR, only 1:1 tracking for me as that is my preference but I am single player only. I certainly do not begrudge any VR players preferred to use the same accelerated view possibilities.

Edited June 11, 2023 by dburne

[charon]

This proposal sounds miserable for us VR players. Head movement restrictions are already disruptive enough in VR, and you want to make them more so?

Besides, I'm not sure why you think looking backwards needs an "owl head". Turn your shoulders! My impression is that the shoulder belts were typically locked only for take-off and landing for precisely this reason.