Battleships to model...

[BlitzPig_EL]

I realize that a 3D model of any capital ship from the period is a daunting task, especially a BB.  So many details, and so many grognards who will point out every little error in a model. 

So rather than trying to model several different classes I would recommend two, one from each side.  And no Yamato is most decidedly NOT one of them.  The real workhorses of the IJN were the Kongos. So I would start there for the Nihon Kaigun.  The example could be any one of the class, but I think Kirishima would be a good start, as she took part in one of the few battleship on battleship engagements of the Pacific war, her action off Savo Island against USS Washington and USS South Dakota

Kirishima with Akagi.

As for the US BB, I propose USS Washington, the second of the North Carolina class, the first US "fast battleships".  She served as Admiral Lee's flagship for most of the war, is an excellent example of US battleship design practice, and her amazing gunnery performance at night in the Second Battle of Savo Island turned Kirishima in to so much scrap metal, scoring 19 to 20 (depending on source) direct hits with 16" super heavy armor piercing shells, and over 40 5" hits on Kirishima's superstructure in a very short time.

 

USS Washington as she appeared in 1945.

Both of these vessels could work in any number of situations historic or not, as representative types that would cover the entire span of the war in the Pacific.  And unlike Yamato, these ships actually did something other than sit in harbors most of her career.

 

 

[IckyAtlas]

In a PTO sim the service ships like tankers, liberty ships, submarines, destroyers, cruisers, battleships and Carriers will be as important as the planes in terms of model quality and their functioning. After all they are both the main actors.

To cut it out financially, very complex battleships like Yamato and other major BB's maybe should be sold as collector items. 

[Enceladus]

Was going to do a thread about my ship requirements but would be better if I just posted it here.

My biggest gripe with Pacific Fighters (and now IL-2 1946) is the lack of ships for mainly the American and Japanese side (British also included to a lesser extent). I won't go further in detail because I'd just be flogging a dead horse. I would say Desert Wings-Tobruk has one of the best depiction of ships in a WW2 combat flight sim as for the most part there is a Battleship, Heavy Cruiser... will mention the rest below... per each side in the game. With that, I would pick Desert Wings over Pacific Fighters any day.

Anyway, for the Midway installment -- I'll call it -- at the bare minimum I would like to see at least one Aircraft Carrier, Heavy Cruiser, Light Cruiser, Destroyer, Submarine, and torpedo boat class per each side.

Along with the carriers at Midway and the USS Lexington and IJN Shoho if the Coral Sea is done, the Battleships BlitzPig_El proposed can work. I'd pick the Tone and New Orleans class Heavy Cruisers, Atlanta and Nagara class Light Cruisers, Gleaves and Kagero class Destroyers (cannot do Midway without the IJN Arashi), Gato, USS Nautilus, and Kaidai IIIb or onwards class Submarines, PT-20 and Otori class torpedo boats.... along with a cargo ship and oil tanker for each side.

Enceladus

Edited May 20, 2023 by Enceladus
Forgot the USS Nautilus

[Ohka]

9 minutes ago, IckyAtlas said:

In a PTO sim the service ships like tankers, liberty ships, submarines, destroyers, cruisers, battleships and Carriers will be as important as the planes in terms of model quality and their functioning. After all they are both the main actors.

To cut it out financially, very complex battleships like Yamato and other major BB's maybe should be sold as collector items. 

I think it would be best to avoid a "WWII Assets Pack" model for AI units.

 

I trust that Jason has a pretty good sense for how to make these things economical. I, for one, don't mind if we don't get a perfect roster of ships to bomb so long as we have good representatives for each ship class while getting the critical ships like Yorktown and Akagi individually modeled.

[Amiral Crapaud]

13 hours ago, IckyAtlas said:

To cut it out financially, very complex battleships like Yamato and other major BB's maybe should be sold as collector items. 

1942 Yamato is, ironically, one of the simplest battleships there is to model ^^

Kongoes are worse, by far.

As for US battleships, I'd actually pick take South Dakota over Washington in regard of her role during carrier action 🙂

 

cheers

[Ribbon]

Rough model without too much details is fine IMO .....i dont think resources and manpower are on their side to go into small details few will notice over non-playable content.

[IckyAtlas]

9 hours ago, Amiral Crapaud said:

1942 Yamato is, ironically, one of the simplest battleships there is to model ^^

As external visual model or as its operational model?

[Amiral Crapaud]

She is both very sleek/slick by 3D standards, and no-nonsense (if not bare) in terms of weaponry and sensors in her 1942 configuration.

She had no business though being part of a carrier task force back then, so indeed a Kongo would be much more representative of what you need 🙂

Edited May 22, 2023 by Amiral Crapaud

[IckyAtlas]

13 hours ago, Amiral Crapaud said:

a Kongo would be much more representative of what you need

A vos ordres Amiral 

[CPT Crunch]

Or a clever idea would be sell ship with plane packages.  What would be wrong with selling a scout or patrol type with one of the ship types it was paired up with.  I'd scoop em up happily, especially if they had repair, rearm, catapult launch and recovery crane capability.  That could go a long way to flesh out the fleets with boats and airplane types not normally seen.  Win win with a two fer.

[Gambit21]

11 minutes ago, CPT Crunch said:

Or a clever idea would be sell ship with plane packages.  What would be wrong with selling a scout or patrol type with one of the ship types it was paired up with.  I'd scoop em up happily, especially if they had repair, rearm, catapult launch and recovery crane capability.  That could go a long way to flesh out the fleets with boats and airplane types not normally seen.  Win win with a two fer.

This is not a good path to go down for several reasons.

For one thing, anyone building content would have to hope that everyone had the plane/ship packages he used in his mission or campaign. Worse, he can't include any ship in the campaign that's in one of the "packages" because not everyone owns it, this the list of potential customers plummets. Ships need to be part of the 'background' included assets and funded in another way...any other way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HerrMurf]

There are work arounds for ships. There are a gajillion WWII 3d warship models out there. They don’t have to be modeled from scratch. Animating them, scaling them, FM/DM (I jest), AI scripts, and making them function properly in game is going to be the challenge. 

[Jason_Williams]

USS Nevada! Battle Born baby! Not the biggest or most powerful, but what a career. 

Jason

[JediMaster]

I'm totally blanking now on both his name and the name of the BB, but I met the man who ordered it aground (as the captain wasn't aboard) during the attack on Pearl Harbor so it wouldn't block the entrance or sink. It was 30 years ago in Miami, he went to the same church as my girlfriend at that time. She interviewed him for some school project and invited me along as I was flying AOTP and PAW at the time and she knew it!

He was already quite old then, gave some back story on how he'd originally been learning to be an aviator but was grounded when he tore up a training seaplane.😬

Someone even portrayed him in Tora, Tora, Tora and had a couple of lines of dialogue, but they don't say his name there.

[wheelsup_cavu]

Pretty cool @JediMaster.

2 hours ago, JediMaster said:

I'm totally blanking now on both his name and the name of the BB, but I met the man who ordered it aground (as the captain wasn't aboard) during the attack on Pearl Harbor so it wouldn't block the entrance or sink. It was 30 years ago in Miami, he went to the same church as my girlfriend at that time. She interviewed him for some school project and invited me along as I was flying AOTP and PAW at the time and she knew it!

He was already quite old then, gave some back story on how he'd originally been learning to be an aviator but was grounded when he tore up a training seaplane.😬

Someone even portrayed him in Tora, Tora, Tora and had a couple of lines of dialogue, but they don't say his name there.

Found who the navy.mil site credits as the Commanding Officer during the attack on this webpage.

https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/nhhc/research/archives/digital-exhibits-highlights/action-reports/wwii-pearl-harbor-attack/ships-m-r/uss-nevada-bb-36-action-report.html

Quote

4. DISTINGUISHED CONDUCT OF PERSONNEL.

It is considered that Lieutenant Commander Francis J. Thomas, U.S. Naval Reserve, the Commanding Officer during the greater part of the attack, is deserving of special commendation. This officer got the ship underway within forty minutes and headed down channel. Although the Nevada had been torpedoed and had received one or two bomb hits, Lieutenant Commander Thomas correctly decided that it was urgently necessary to get underway to avoid destruction of the ship due to the proximity of the Arizona which was surrounded with burning oil and afire from stem to stern. Through the action Lieutenant Commander Thomas coolly and calmly fought the ship despite many bomb hits and casualties. After the attack and for two days afterward, Lieutenant Commander Thomas performed damage control duties in a most creditable manner although near the point of exhaustion by his two days of strenuous work.

 

Wheels

[JediMaster]

Yes! Tommy Thomas! Although his name was Francis, everyone called him Tommy. 

I don't know when he passed, he was already getting quite frail (1992 maybe?), but he was literally one of those people you never would have guessed was a war hero like that. However, I do totally see the "coolly and calmly" part. He seemed to be the type that would watch a volcano erupt next door and say "well, you don't see that everyday." 

[Amiral Crapaud]

7 hours ago, HerrMurf said:

There are work arounds for ships. There are a gajillion WWII 3d warship models out there. They don’t have to be modeled from scratch. Animating them, scaling them, FM/DM (I jest), AI scripts, and making them function properly in game is going to be the challenge. 

I agree there are quite a few of them - but what would you say if I was saying the same of aircraft 3D models? ^^

I mean, it's the Pacific, I'd have expected the player base to be a bit more concerned than that about rivet countering when it comes to ships, to be honest 🫠 

If it ain't the case, then fine, I am in the minority... But still! 🤐

[HerrMurf]

I’m sure any off the shelf boat will be reworked as/if necessary to meet the rivet counting demands. Depending on how interactive they’d be, the only boat I’d expect to possibly be done completely in house would be the carriers.

I mean, our Zero 3d model is literally being reworked from a mid war to early war version.

[Coder25]

6 hours ago, Jason_Williams said:

USS Nevada! Battle Born baby! Not the biggest or most powerful, but what a career. 

Jason

It's not the size of the ship in the fight...it's the size of the fight in the ship!

[wheelsup_cavu]

50 minutes ago, JediMaster said:

I don't know when he passed,

October 16, 1904 to January 1, 2005. He was 100 years old when he passed.

https://obits.cleveland.com/us/obituaries/cleveland/name/francis-thomas-obituary?id=17213000

 

Wheels

 

[Amiral Crapaud]

22 minutes ago, HerrMurf said:

I’m sure any off the shelf boat will be reworked as/if necessary to meet the rivet counting demands. Depending on how interactive they’d be, the only boat I’d expect to possibly be done completely in house would be the carriers.

I mean, our Zero 3d model is literally being reworked from a mid war to early war version.

Well when it comes from standardization within a given game so as to follow the requirements set for the art direction and the tech guys, it is very much a thankless task. Reworking a model ain't going to bring you the satisfaction you're looking for if it wasn't up to your standards to begin with, whether in terms of shapes, details, or even technical hacks (and getting a hull shape right is one of these ^^)

Was it written somewhere that the Zero model we have seen was going to be remodeled into an A6M2 or is it a guess?

[HerrMurf]

Stated

[wheelsup_cavu]

19 minutes ago, Amiral Crapaud said:

Was it written somewhere that the Zero model we have seen was going to be remodeled into an A6M2 or is it a guess?

Here is the post where @Jason_Williams mentions it is being converted into an earlier model.

 

Wheels

[HerrMurf]

Addendum:

Though, we have no idea if it is to be included as a production model or just a technology demonstrator for the team. The article seems to hint it may be the latter.

Thanks for finding it Wheels. I was on a dying phone without my glasses. Getting old is BS.

Edited May 24, 2023 by HerrMurf
Clarity

[wheelsup_cavu]

9 minutes ago, HerrMurf said:

Getting old is BS.

Lol, I know EXACTLY what you mean. 😁

 

Wheels