Carrier Based vs. Land Based

[BornToBattle]

Naturally the chosen opening battle makes sense and we are all looking forward to a flight sim which is way (WAY) overdue in the Pacific with the different sets of aircraft bailable and the skills required for carrier landings, let alone accomplishing this under adverse conditions such as rudder input gone, visibility, etc.

Just a thought since Jason mentioned Pearl Harbor which also got me pondering also all those land based aircraft in the Pacific. I’m wondering if “down the line” this may be of interest to any of us? Im thinking along the lines of a FLYABLE B-25 etc I don’t know the scope of how large these maps are gonna be let alone what game engine they will be running as of this date so as to what extent they’ll be able to accomplish such tasks remains to be seen.  Four engine heavies even? I’ll take the B-24 thank you. Just put feelers out here,
 

[ÆþelrædUnræd]

Actually, for me land based would be the much preferred option. Taking off and landing on carriers is fun, sure, but flying hundreds of kilometres in a straight line over the ocean with nothing to see but water, water and more water just sounds so insanely boring....

That said, I think Pearl Harbor is a poor choice for a "land battle" as it's just an hour or two of air combat, 99% of it Japanese.

Edited May 29, 2023 by ÆþelrædUnræd

[Trooper117]

Land based preferred for me... but I'll take what I can get regardless.

[kissTheSky]

Yeah, if there’s a choice, I’d prefer land based as well, just because I’m complete sh!te at carrier landings. 🚒

[Stick]

Carrier vs carrier IMO has a short shelf life.  Land based has more life to it and in some land based scenarios the presence of carriers is essential.

[javelina]

we'll get both, and you can pick your fancy.  🙂

[wheelsup_cavu]

1 hour ago, javelina said:

we'll get both, and you can pick your fancy.  🙂

I think it may be carrier vs carrier initially since it won't require populating any land masses.

 

Wheels

[Trooper117]

1 hour ago, wheelsup_cavu said:

I think it may be carrier vs carrier initially since it won't require populating any land masses.

 

Wheels

He did mention Midway Island...

[BlitzPig_EL]

P40s of the Flying Tigers, and Brewsters of the RAF defending Rangoon against IJAAC Ki27s, Ki43s, and Nells.  Bring it!!

[Props]

Well my heart skipped a beat when Jason said the first release will be about Midway. I love carrier battles. But what I really want is the Solomon Islands from Guadalcanal and the march up the Slot, as that gives us plenty of both carrier and land based air combat. My second choice would be the New Guinea campaign as that gives us lot's of interesting terrain and both IJN and IJA aircraft in the mix. I have seen a lot of folks here pushing for Burma and I think it too would be fun, but I can wait a while for that given that there are no carriers involved.

[wheelsup_cavu]

1 hour ago, Trooper117 said:

He did mention Midway Island...

True, but Coral Sea could be done first as carrier vs carrier only and Midway added later since the Aircraft set would be almost exactly the same. Midway would almost surely require additional ship assets to be modeled too??

 

Wheels

[Props]

Historically Coral Sea was fought before Midway and I'd certainly be cool with that, but Jason already said Midway is first. Plus Shokaku and Zuikaku (+ Shoho) were at Coral Sea but not at Midway so on top of modelling Akagi, Kaga, Soryu, and Hiryu for Midway they would also have to do Shokaku and Zuikako, which I am also cool with as the more the merrier. But I am sure they have enough to chew on as it is for Midway as there were several IJN cruiser types, and destroyers, though they could put off the troop transports for a bit and maybe the oilers too to keep it simple. You wouldn't have to do the IJN battleships like Yamato, etc. because they were still several hundred miles away to the rear and were never part of the battle.

And then there's the US ships and that's a little easier since all three carriers were Yorktown class so just one model. Add in the cruisers and destroyers and possibly one US submarine since one did influence the battle. So at minimum you're talking about 8 different ships at it's simplest. Coral Sea would only require about 6 or 7 since Shokaku and Zuikako are the same class with small differences and then just Lexington and Yorktown plus assorted cruisers and destroyers. Though you'd probably want to add an oiler since that also played a role in how that battle turned out.

Hell, I'm in for as much as they can bring to the table, but for now it's just a waiting game. We'll see what shakes out.  

[Gambit21]

Wildcats and Zeros were both land-based during the entire 6 month battle for Guadalcanal.

That battle is really where the rubber meets the road for early PTO. 

Well that and CBI, and NG. Point is, (and I went rounds on this on the other forum) the war was won and lost due to extended land-based battles...not short carrier battles.

Both sides left Midway on equal terms...force parity basically. It was the 6 month battle of Guadalcanal afterwards where the war was arguably lost for the Japanese.

So what I'm saying is...you needn't look to B-25's etc for land-based aircraft. Both the Zero and Wildcat, not to mention the Oscar, P-40 and on and on...all land based. That's not even getting into the float planes.

 

 

 

 

[BlitzPig_EL]

The Japanese Army's air service was gutted in New Guinea.  Half of their high hour experienced pilots were lost there.

[Bremspropeller]

Coconut-palmtrees, crushed coral airstrips and and a couple of P-38s 😍

[busdriver]

2 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

Coconut-palmtrees, crushed coral airstrips and and a couple of P-38s 😍

Swarms (clouds) of mosquitoes, biting flies and the clinching your butt cheeks tightly hoping your arse doesn’t explode from dysentery. Just saying if you want that true jungle experience. 😘

[Bremspropeller]

54 minutes ago, busdriver said:

and the clinching your butt cheeks tightly hoping your arse doesn’t explode from dysentery

Brings a whole new meaning to the term "bucket list".

[BlitzPig_EL]

And the introduction of the Ki61 by the IJAAC, which had General Kenny sending urgent messages to Washington to get P38s sent to New Guinea ASAP.  The Allied P40s then in theater were simply no match for the "Tony", when it was running properly.

[Gambit21]

27 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

…when it was running properly.

That’s huge qualifier as you already know.

Or indeed when they could get into the air at all. 

 

[BlitzPig_EL]

Japan's lack of qualified mechanics exacerbated the problems they already had with mass production of complex modern aero engines.  Being in New Guinea made things even worse, as they had no depot level maintenance facilities in theater.  The Kawasaki engines had to be sent back to the Philippines for major work.  The Ki43 had far higher in service rates than the higher performance Ki61.

Still the biggest issue for both sides was pilot health.  There were always more aircraft in flyable condition then there were pilots to fly them.

[Sobilak]

My favorite PTO have always been and still are Salomons and New Guinea. 

There's a plenty of time for a long career  on one map, plane's like F4F, SBD, A6M, D3A, F4U, F6F, B5, TBF are used as "carrier based and land based" so set is very versatil. On Salomon's we have naval battles. 

There's a chance for P-40, P-38 D/E/H, P-39, Ki43, Ki61, B-25, A20, Beaufighter and other's interesting aicraft's.

[Trooper117]

I had a set of Salomons once... they don't half shift on the piste...

Edited June 28, 2023 by Trooper117

[spreckair]

On 6/1/2023 at 10:03 AM, busdriver said:

clinching your butt cheeks tightly hoping your arse doesn’t explode from dysentery

Well, just wait until they add smell to VR; true immersion.

[Boom]

If we have to have Carrier battles (and I have to say that my preference is for land based), then I would like to see all four 1942 carrier battles depicted. That is Coral Sea (tactical draw, strategic defeat), Midway (stunning defeat on all levels), Eastern Solomons (tactical draw, strategic defeat IJN air crews) and Santa Cruz (tactical win yet strategic defeat IJN air crews). The IJN air crew losses over EA and SC basically destroyed the IJNAF's ability to successfully impact the air battles to come in the Solomons.

The last two battles I find most interesting, are they are the least well known. And also a portent of things to come, ie attacking USN carriers is decidedly unhealthy.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Boom

[Feathered_IV]

Green Island to Rabaul is just 30 minutes. 😉