Computer Hardware

[dkoor]

Just a simple speculation...

What would seem like a minimum spec to run this sim decently? Im asking because I'm not in "these waters" for years, like a decade or so...

[Trooper117]

I don't think they are anywhere near or even able to give you an answer to that question...

[dkoor]

3 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

I don't think they are anywhere near or even able to give you an answer to that question...

Thanks... I'm asking since I'm getting myself a new rig very soon 🙂.

[GPatricks]

On 12/24/2023 at 7:22 PM, dkoor said:

Thanks... I'm asking since I'm getting myself a new rig very soon 🙂.

The simple answer, which is\has been applicable to ALL sims since the beginning, is to wait as long as you can and get the most powerful system you can afford. It's never been complicated.

Edited December 29, 2023 by GPatricks

[RossMarBow]

On 12/26/2023 at 12:13 AM, GPatricks said:

The simple answer, which is\has been applicable to ALL sims since the beginning, is to wait as long as you can and get the most powerful system you can afford. It's never been complicated.

I disagree here, because its factually incorrect.

If you do the maths its better to buy parts that have the best fps/$ and upgrade more frequently. 

This becomes even more true if you start selling your old bits and mixing in second hand bits.

But even without selling your old parts your still significantly better off buying the middle low end of CPU and GPU ranges
i.e. 4060 14400 or 7600 78x3d

Buying a 4090 that is multiples more expensive does not make sense.

Furthermore if you look at a performance over time i.e. over the next decade
someone who buys low/mid range more frequently will have higher fps over that decade than someone with a **9K or **90
Unless of course the **9K buyer updates at the same speed, but now we are talking about spending probably $10,000 more for not much better performance, over that decade.
 

Edited January 12 by RossMarBow

[GPatricks]

2 hours ago, RossMarBow said:

I disagree here, because its factually incorrect.

If you do the maths its better to buy parts that have the best fps/$ and upgrade more frequently. 

This becomes even more true if you start selling your old bits and mixing in second hand bits.

But even without selling your old parts your still significantly better off buying the middle low end of CPU and GPU ranges
i.e. 4060 14400 or 7600 78x3d

Buying a 4090 that is multiples more expensive does not make sense.

Furthermore if you look at a performance over time i.e. over the next decade
someone who buys low/mid range more frequently will have higher fps over that decade than someone with a **9K or **90
Unless of course the **9K buyer updates at the same speed, but now we are talking about spending probably $10,000 more for not much better performance, over that decade.
 

Your points are noted, but you introduce building a system using second hand parts, etc. The question was simple, the guy is getting a "new rig very soon", seemingly for flight sims. I didn't get that he was a system builder from that. It always comes down to budget, even using your logic. The higher spec system you buy/build today, the longer you can stave off upgrading. If you build systems and enjoy tinkering, by all means swap out/upgrade components as the opportunity arises. Even my latest system was a compromise as I had just purchased a matched set of 64GB DDR4, but i've literally built 100's of systems since the inception of the 8086 PC in the 80's... For GPUs I would say the best bang-for-buck in the Nvidia line is the 4070 right now, 1/3 the cost of a 4090 with very good overall performance.  https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-RTX-4090-vs-Nvidia-RTX-4070/4136vs4148

 

Edited January 12 by GPatricks

[RossMarBow]

Yea I can't imagine not having the ability to do seemingly basic computer stuff.
I'm lucky my family was well off enough to allow me to mess around with computers as a kid.
I also enjoy overclocking as a hobby so buy 2nd hand kit and abuse the shit out of it. The only thing that has failed me has been apple kit. Excluding deliberate acts of silicon vandalism. 

 

But in some ways its another reason to buy reasonably prices parts...
he could buy 2 or 3 complete systems, just in case somehow he breaks everything and can't get it replaced for free, which is extremely unlikely, for the price of top end parts
teach a man to fish

 

(top end parts that will be worth a fraction of the purchase price before the warranty runs out)

that way he long term has access to better performance because lets face it every if your incredibly well off 
you can't really beat being able to simply and quickly upgrading your own PC 

 

and the crux of the matter is this
IL-2 can run on anything
nothing can run DCS well cause the software is garbage and hardware doesn't fix software
and the requirements of combat pilot are completely unknown - building a system today for combat pilot is choosing to go up shit creek without a padel (if you can't do basic stuff like swapping components out)

if we are super optimistic - combat pilot will be released 3 years for now
by then a 14900 will be 50% slower than a budget 100$usd new CPU (i.e. the game might be unplayable on it)
CPU bottle necks in simulations are always a big issue
same goes for a 4090 - less of a chance of it being unplayable because of the amount of ram it has - but bottom end new cards will out pace it
- probably more like 5 years for a full release of combat pilot best case

everyone jokes about how bad an 'investment' cars are - but PCs are absolute garbage - imagine if your car was 50% slower and used 100% more gas in 5 years time...

the only way you can future proof your PCs performance is by planning on upgrading or replacing it - the best way to do that is by not spending a ridiculous amount on it in the first place - no amount of spending on current tech will mean anything long term

 

it wasn't long ago that a 3 year old PC was entirely obsolete and just e-waste after a few years, and personally I wouldn't bet on the 2010's malaise in the hardware industry continuing 

maybe I'm underestimating the skills required like I said its hard to imagine 

 

and at the end of the day telling someone who seems to be making a poorly thought out impulse buy that they need to spend as much as possible is entirely questionable 

[GPatricks]

1 hour ago, RossMarBow said:

and at the end of the day telling someone who seems to be making a poorly thought out impulse buy that they need to spend as much as possible is entirely questionable 

I do take a bit of umbrage at that remark.. What I actually said was "wait as long as you can and get the most powerful system you can afford"... and I stand by that. It may be a mis-mash of used parts or a super-system as he could be a dirt poor kid or multi-millionaire, who knows? I can build anything I want as i spent my life getting to this point, and could care less about depreciation, but thats me. I never tell someone with limited funds to go buy the latest and greatest, I ask "what is the budget" and then put together the best system I can at that budget. I agree that NO ONE knows what will be required to run "Combat Pilot" or anything else in 3-5 years, but when in PC history has anyone had the ability to forecast that? As they are designing it ON today's hardware, I can make a reasonable assumption anyone with a solid system built today will be able to run a well-designed piece of software released in a few years.. 

Edited January 12 by GPatricks

[RossMarBow]

On 1/13/2024 at 12:20 AM, GPatricks said:

I do take a bit of umbrage at that remark.. What I actually said was "wait as long as you can and get the most powerful system you can afford"... and I stand by that. It may be a mis-mash of used parts or a super-system as he could be a dirt poor kid or multi-millionaire, who knows? I can build anything I want as i spent my life getting to this point, and could care less about depreciation, but thats me. I never tell someone with limited funds to go buy the latest and greatest, I ask "what is the budget" and then put together the best system I can at that budget. I agree that NO ONE knows what will be required to run "Combat Pilot" or anything else in 3-5 years, but when in PC history has anyone had the ability to forecast that? As they are designing it ON today's hardware, I can make a reasonable assumption anyone with a solid system built today will be able to run a well-designed piece of software released in a few years.. 

Yea fair call.

I have been pretty disappointed with the tech industry.

Specifically the quality of even top of the line products.

So I'm on a bit of a crusade to only buy second hand now.

[dkoor]

Guys some of you took this really too far. I just happen to have the need to buy a new rig soon for several reasons, not solely for the simming. How you derived it could be a "poorly thought impulse buy" is beyond me. 

Reasons why I asked in the first place was I haven't updated my system for years, nor did I nurtured my interest for PC systems and related news... + don't really frequent simming forums and news. So I figured I could use some advice.🙂

[GPatricks]

20 minutes ago, dkoor said:

Guys some of you took this really too far. I just happen to have the need to buy a new rig soon for several reasons, not solely for the simming. How you derived it could be a "poorly thought impulse buy" is beyond me. 

Reasons why I asked in the first place was I haven't updated my system for years, nor did I nurtured my interest for PC systems and related news... + don't really frequent simming forums and news. So I figured I could use some advice.🙂

You asked on a flight-sim forum, so you get flight-sim advice... The simple answer, which is\has been applicable to ALL sims since the beginning, is to wait as long as you can and get the most powerful system you can afford.

[RossMarBow]

My brother in Christ.

Imagine asking for advice.

Then telling people they shouldn't have really given you any.

And that you don't really want advice about how to spend you pennies.

 Never change flight sim community. 

 

 

In other news I upgraded to a 5800x3d finally from my 5600x.

And might be about to finally win a graphics card auction on ebay.

Just buying a 3070 for dirt cheap, as I want to experience nVidya 
before I actually buy a new nvidya card
as I'm dubious of the company 
and believe they are kinda scammy 

the list of Nvidia scams:
physx
gsync
bum coins
ray tracing
bum coins
frame generation / DLSS
AI

[Major Lee]

I'm building a new PC myself, and yes, I'm searching for performance/$... But, it won't be just for gaming. I also do a bit of video editing, and project files get big, fast. At any rate, I'm looking for the mostest I can find, hopefully on sale. Intel 13700k is down to $335. Newegg has the 12900KS on sale now at $320. I would really like to see GPUs drop a bit. GPUs are like optics for rifles; you can spend more on the optic than the rifle. You can spend more on the GPU than the rest of PC. 

[Aapje]

@Major Lee

I'd get an AMD CPU now if I were you. The 7800X3D is the best gaming CPU right now, is cheaper than the i9 processors, produces less heat and you'll probably be able to upgrade in the future as well.

And (some) new GPUs should be released between now and the end of the year.