The mother of all career modes

[tattywelshie]

What I'd really, really love is a super immersive career mode, one that takes the best bits of, more often than not, the older style of flight sims, before multiplayer ruined, sorry, I mean changed the flight sim world forever.

So, I'm thinking, a truly dynamic career mode, where missions have a real world effect on the frontline, and where missions are generated based on real time events. From what I can remember, Falcon 4.0 had this back in the day, or even the original IL2? I get what BoX have done, with the historic accuracy of missions, but more often than not, this leaves missions boring, and whole mission types, such as ship interdiction and radar site destruction, entirely missing.

Secondly, a much higher level of detail on squadron and pilot dynamics. So, almost like the B17 game, where you can keep tabs on crew moral, with actual files on pilots.

Also, the supply of weapons and aircraft, that is linked to missions flown. So, if you go out and lose a shed load of planes, then, the next mission, that would have an effect.

I'm sure there is more that could be done to make the career mode something that really is the envy of the flight sim world. Anyone have any more suggestions on features that should be included in an ultimate career mode. 

[Gunny]

Probably one of the best career modes I remember was from Sierra/Dynamix "Aces of the Pacific."  You would choose to fly for the US or Japan, then choose the branch you wanted to fly for.  Once those were chosen, you were assigned to historic squadrons during the appropriate period they were in theatre.  I remember getting assigned to VMF-214 and flying with Greg Boyington.  We were on a fighter sweep with the Major leading the flight, next mission, he was gone.  That was pretty immersive.

[JediMaster]

That was at its best in Red Baron II/3D. Also Sierra/Dynamix but I think it worked even better there than in AotP/AoE.

[Boom]

Agree RB3D was an excellent offline campaign mode. Surprising just how varied missions were. EAW too did a great job.

Sad to say that 'modern' sims do campaigns very poorly. As mentioned above, multiplayer has changed how sims are viewed. Not knocking MP, I enjoyed flying against humans online in both RB3D and EAW. Added a whole new dimension to the skill level required to survive. 

There is a definite place in the flight combat sim world for MP. As there is for offline campaign mode.

So Jason et al, please don't forget us. 

PS: The only modern sim I have flown that can rival (and exceed) both RB3D and EAW in campaign mode is Wings Over Flanders Field (WOFF). It is brilliant in scope, accuracy, variation and is blessed with quality AI. Anyone who misses RB3D should go out and buy this sim. It is an honest successor.

[wheelsup_cavu]

On 6/22/2023 at 6:04 PM, Boom said:

Over Flanders Field (WOFF)

There is still a fairly active forum at SimHQ for this one too.

https://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/forums/372/1/Wings_Over_Flanders_Fields

 

Wheels

[tattywelshie]

On 6/23/2023 at 2:04 AM, Boom said:

Agree RB3D was an excellent offline campaign mode. Surprising just how varied missions were. EAW too did a great job.

Sad to say that 'modern' sims do campaigns very poorly. As mentioned above, multiplayer has changed how sims are viewed. Not knocking MP, I enjoyed flying against humans online in both RB3D and EAW. Added a whole new dimension to the skill level required to survive. 

There is a definite place in the flight combat sim world for MP. As there is for offline campaign mode.

So Jason et al, please don't forget us. 

PS: The only modern sim I have flown that can rival (and exceed) both RB3D and EAW in campaign mode is Wings Over Flanders Field (WOFF). It is brilliant in scope, accuracy, variation and is blessed with quality AI. Anyone who misses RB3D should go out and buy this sim. It is an honest successor.

I've heard good things about WOFF, might have to have a dabble. I agree though, MP is enjoyable, but it just doesnt grab me as much as a career mode. It's the immersion level I think.

[373BS_308BG_CBI]

On 6/22/2023 at 4:28 PM, JediMaster said:

That was at its best in Red Baron II/3D. Also Sierra/Dynamix but I think it worked even better there than in AotP/AoE.

I actually really like Aces of the Pacific campaigns because if you signed on to V-6, B-6 or T-6 squadrons of the Enterprise then you went with the enterprise on raids and into the major battles she participated in.   It was also reasonably comprehensive of options within the Pacific Theater but did not include CBI theater that I recall and I would love to see included in Combat Pilot.  One thing I love about WoFF BHaH is the completeness of it... covering all squadrons and types of AC on both sides for the entire conflict across the Western Front

[Ambaryerno]

On 6/21/2023 at 8:08 AM, Gunny said:

Probably one of the best career modes I remember was from Sierra/Dynamix "Aces of the Pacific."  You would choose to fly for the US or Japan, then choose the branch you wanted to fly for.  Once those were chosen, you were assigned to historic squadrons during the appropriate period they were in theatre.  I remember getting assigned to VMF-214 and flying with Greg Boyington.  We were on a fighter sweep with the Major leading the flight, next mission, he was gone.  That was pretty immersive.

YES, start with Aces of the Pacific and how comprehensive it was, and build from there.

Maybe combine it with the dynamic campaign capabilities of European Air War where you had a limited number of planes, pilots, and munitions, and the AI pilots in the squadron could actually gain experience as the campaign progressed.

[tattywelshie]

I think Jason and his team really have an amazing opportunity here to create the ultimate career mode, something that really sets it apart from other sims out there. I know I'm biased as I only really play single player, but to have something with a real longevity, where you can form an almost emotional bond with your squadron mates would be amazing.

[dburne]

11 hours ago, tattywelshie said:

I think Jason and his team really have an amazing opportunity here to create the ultimate career mode, something that really sets it apart from other sims out there. I know I'm biased as I only really play single player, but to have something with a real longevity, where you can form an almost emotional bond with your squadron mates would be amazing.

 

Just please for the love of all, do not make the AI use the same flight models as the player plane. I believe that was the big detriment to large formations in IL-2 GB? 

Edited September 29, 2023 by dburne

[spreckair]

1 hour ago, dburne said:

Just please for the love of all, do not make the AI use the same flight models as the player plane. I believe that was the big detriment to large formations in IL-2 GB?

...unless you are able to do it and have large formations.  Recall that IL-2 GB's development started like over ten years ago, and things have changed quite a bit since then. 

What I like about the AI having the same flight models is that I am fighting against less phony AI (or at least I believe that I am).  

[dburne]

44 minutes ago, spreckair said:

...unless you are able to do it and have large formations.  Recall that IL-2 GB's development started like over ten years ago, and things have changed quite a bit since then. 

What I like about the AI having the same flight models is that I am fighting against less phony AI (or at least I believe that I am).  

 

Well I was involved in IL-2 GB from the beginning with the first early access and all throughout the additions.

I don't recall large formations being able to be done but certainly could be wrong I guess. I have just never seen them. At least no where near how DCS does with large formations. All of my flying was with either PWCG or Career Mode.

 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2023 by dburne

[Sea Serpent]

Imagine a hundred plane formations…it isn’t hard if you try.  This sim is like 5 years out for this kind of thing, according to that interview.  Maybe they’ll be able to build for the future, and they’ll be able to have 100 plane formations, with full FM, and smart AI, at the same time.  

[spreckair]

Ultimately, I think we all want flight sims that feel as close to the real thing.  Now, if only our consumer equipment will allow for it to be possible?

[CPT Crunch]

What it needs is an entertaining game behind the illusion of reality, that's what will give it legs to last.  Ever had to go to a real simulator, boring as hell and its all week long.  The game has to have variety and depth, lots of modes, highly customizable so the maximum number of users can use it in a way they want, we all have different ideas on how it should play out. 

Personally I'd like the ability to slap a basic custom mission scenario together in an hour or so during the week, and get everybody in it in five minutes once you link up sort of thing, and do it all with enough variety there's non-repetitive game play.  After hour 500 playing it's the game that going to give you the illusion of flying combat, not the flight simulation aspect, that is always going to diminish over time, but it happens much slower with an entertaining game tucked in behind the curtain.