Take a look at this beast!...

[Trooper117]

What a monster...

 

[BlitzPig_EL]

Being prepped for it's final flight to a museum in the US.

[Trooper117]

Up she goes... awesome!

When I watched the video, I kept thinking, ''Oh shit, they left the lower front starboard hatch open!''

 

Edited December 17, 2024 by Trooper117

[CPT Crunch]

Although it looks like a fantastically interesting aircraft to crew on and operate it had probably the worst rates of all American losses during the war.  You were literally signing your death certificate going out on long range recon in one of these, that took some huge balls.  

[Trooper117]

What losses were these then?... 

[ZachariasX]

4 hours ago, CPT Crunch said:

Although it looks like a fantastically interesting aircraft to crew on and operate it had probably the worst rates of all American losses during the war.  You were literally signing your death certificate going out on long range recon in one of these, that took some huge balls.  

There were seven built in total, five ferried cargo to Hawaii during the war. There were no losses that I know of during that time. One sank, one burned and sank and one crashed with loss of lives, all after or long after the war.

But I agree, it took balls of steel flying long renge recon missions back then…

[Boo]

16 hours ago, CPT Crunch said:

Although it looks like a fantastically interesting aircraft to crew on and operate it had probably the worst rates of all American losses during the war.  You were literally signing your death certificate going out on long range recon in one of these, that took some huge balls.  

Are you thinking of the Mariner?  

 

[Trooper117]

3 hours ago, Boo said:

Are you thinking of the Mariner?  

 

He might well have been... as has been stated above, I could find no combat losses of the JRM, also, of the 7 aircraft produced, that total included the XP versions as well.

[Boo]

4 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

He might well have been... as has been stated above, I could find no combat losses of the JRM, also, of the 7 aircraft produced, that total included the XP versions as well.

It it were the Mariner, Im not sure if even that aircraft deserved its abismal reputation. Im mean sure it wasnt great in terms of some build features and power but it served hard and with distinction in war and for nearly 25 years in total, often in less than prime conditions and with an increasingly old airframe. I do wonder if the popularity of the Flight 19 mystery (the only mystery appearing to be why the flight leader couldnt get out of his own way) and the Mariner's intergal part in that story, with the oft cited "fact" that the Mariner was prone to explode, has had something to do with it. 

Mariner   1366 produced, 104 ASN occurences, 534 fatalities

Catalina  3300 produced, 718 ASN occurences, 2115 fatalities 

Sunderland 749 produced, 171 ASN occurences, 737 fatalities

Now arguably if you make more aircraft to put in harm's way during times of war you are going to skew the loss rate but, even taking this into account, the Mariner doesnt come out as having an unusually high marker. 

I would say then its an aircraft much and unfairly maligned and forever damned by Charles Berlitz and his ridiculous fantasies. 

Edited December 20, 2024 by Boo

[Sea Serpent]

28 minutes ago, Boo said:

It it were the Mariner, Im not sure if even that aircraft deserved its abismal reputation. Im mean sure it wasnt great in terms of some build features and power but it served hard and with distinction in war and for nearly 25 years in total, often in less than prime conditions and with an increasingly old airframe. I do wonder if the popularity of the Flight 19 mystery (the only mystery appearing to be why the flight leader couldnt get out of his own way) and the Mariner's intergal part in that story, with the oft cited "fact" that the Mariner was prone to explode, has had something to do with it. 

Mariner   1366 produced, 104 ASN occurences, 534 fatalities

Catalina  3300 produced, 718 ASN occurences, 2115 fatalities 

Sunderland 749 produced, 171 ASN occurences, 737 fatalities

Now arguably if you make more aircraft to put in harm's way during times of war you are going to skew the loss rate but, even taking this into account, the Mariner doesnt come out as having an unusually high marker. 

I would say then its an aircraft much and unfairly maligned and forever damned by Charles Berlitz and his ridiculous fantasies. 

I don't have a copy of the book, but I doubt Berlitz cast a shadow on the PBM as an aircraft.  He doesn't seem to have paid much heed to Occam's Razor.  If some design flaw existed on the PBM, like in the fuel system, he probably wouldn't have mentioned it.  That would get in the way of it exploding due to Aliens, Ancient Atlanteans, or other unexplained phenomena.

[Boo]

10 minutes ago, Sea Serpent said:

I don't have a copy of the book, but I doubt Berlitz cast a shadow on the PBM as an aircraft.  He doesn't seem to have paid much heed to Occam's Razor.  If some design flaw existed on the PBM, like in the fuel system, he probably wouldn't have mentioned it.  That would get in the way of it exploding due to Aliens, Ancient Atlanteans, or other unexplained phenomena.

I do recall it being mentioned. That book was the first "grown up" book I ever read  (I was 8 ok and it was everywhere- Charles Berlitz sounded like an important guy who knew a lot - my mum had one of his language tapes and everything) but, yeah probably no more than an passing reference as a feint to balance. However, every doc and debunker since has made much of the Mariner's fragile fuel system to the point its become a far more important detactor than it perhaps should have been. If you listen to them, a Mariner exploded every third trip or fifth left hand turn. Thats not to say it didnt explode for no reason in this case, just that not every one did nor with such alarming regularity.